Phoenix Network Forums

slashfoo wrote:Yeah I see the parallel, but there is also something that I have read in dog books, and it is that it is not only other dogs in the house that are their 'pack' its every family member most of the time.

My mom, dad, sister and myself are also members of the pack, and they will whine if they do not see someone of said pack for long, and greet them in a way that seems joyful when they return. I don't know, and as I said, even if it is not love, I feel very good when they act this way.

I agree that dogs don't limit their pack membership to other dogs only, as I mentioned earlier. Probably because the humans are the providers of food and it would not be beneficial to exclude them, or maybe they are not even capable of making this distinction due to their lack of self awareness.

Anyways it makes me feel good when my dog acts in a way people commonly refer to as "happy to see me." But I know if his food supply suddenly stopped then he would find a new owner and wouldn't act this way toward me any longer because he has no use for me...But if they felt real love shouldn't they still behave that way toward me?

I have had a lot of dogs throughout my life (five is a lot to me ), I have given away three of them, and whenever my sister visits the one that is still alive, he jumps and starts running around, and I am sure that by now he is already used to his food being provided by other people, plus, my sister never gave him food, it was my mom.

I have also given away a dog. I gave it to my sister. I visited it after a long time of no see and it seemed as if it remembered me(like it was more accepting of me than it is to other strangers). Maybe it remembered my smell. Anyways he wouldn't listen to any of my commands, it was hardly interested in me as it would always run back to my sister.
This pissed me off. Oh well.

Humans love to anthropomorphize, which is kind of silly when you think about it. Dogs don't feel the way humans feel. Just because they do something that you percieve as love does not mean that the dog did it out of love. I don't think dogs even have a concept of love. They have instinct. Their instinct may be to gaurd someone with their life, or to jump all over them when they see them, but that's not love. I don't think we can define what it is, it is just what dogs do.

Dogs also don't bother to have philosophical discussions on their feelings

Absolutely, I mean I've never had a dog, but I've met enoughs dogs, to know it's true.

Not only dogs, but parrots heh, I had like 5 of those green little demons , and they are SO SMART....and well recently I was watching animal planet, and they were analyzing, who'd be that really smart of the animals..( I only watched the end of the show tho) and it was the parrot in the first place.

They were so funny, I didn't liked them into jails...I bought them, so when they recover back again their wings, they could fly away(It was true)... they apparently choose, one single female, or let's say friend to share the whole of their lifes, and it was always my brother, they liked to squeeze up my fingers with their really sharp and strong tips.

They loved so much my brother..when he arrived from college, they were all over him, and he had to share his lunch, if he was sleepy by that time, he had to sleep with them, believe me or not heh... and so on.

A nice story btw,
you mention "they were all over him" and that "he would always have to share his lunch." Do you think they would still flock to him if he didn't always have food?

Of course dogs love their owners.

To a dog, you ARE HIS/HER LIFE. But to you, he's a PART of your LIFE. You'll outgrow your dog most often than not. And that you are his/her entire life...but he's just a part of your life.

oscuro im considering opening up a thread for parrots and their intelligence. I mean there birds but many times i find them much smarter than monkeys

rodoabad wrote:Of course dogs love their owners.

To a dog, you ARE HIS/HER LIFE. But to you, he's a PART of your LIFE. You'll outgrow your dog most often than not. And that you are his/her entire life...but he's just a part of your life.

You support your statement by repeating yourself. A dog seems to give great value to his owner probably because the owner plays a big role in the dogs' survival.

But dependency(or greatly valuing something) doesn't always equal a feeling of love toward that particular thing. For example, one may depend on having a job to put food on their plate, they may place the job as top priority over all other things because the loss of the job will generate horrible consequences, but when asked they could say they hate their job.

tarbosaurus_geticus wrote:oscuro im considering opening up a thread for parrots and their intelligence. I mean there birds but many times i find them much smarter than monkeys

Crows are by far the smartest of all birds. I believe that if crows were larger (and perhaps if they had arms), they would dominate the world and enslave the human race. They can make tools!

Crows are definitely amazing, some people got them to untie knots on this tv program.

HxC wrote:Of course dogs feel all that, at least mine does! When i'm playing with my hamster my dog will try to get in or something, or when i'm watching tv with my dad she will separate us so she can stay with dad! haha it's pretty cute dogs do all that

Your dog may be trying to maintain status in your pack, rather than expressing love(if love is what you are even talking about, I dont know what "all that" means). Would a hamster, a cat, or any other non-pack animal express this same behavior? If yes give me an example!

One more idea: Does everyone think that the ability to love would be advantageous to dogs' survival? Or do you think they could function effectively without it?[/code]

Maby they fell, who knows But I think this is not love, this is only attachment.

I don't truly feel a dog feels "love" for an owner or even for a fellow companion. For example. consider wolves (close enough to dogs). Pack loyalty is a force that keeps a pack of wolves together. However, this trust is fleeting and the weakest becomes the outcast. Trust and comradery are definately not what human love is. Now consider the typical household pet. Had it not been domesticated it would have to fend for itself, like a wolf. A dog learns to trust and abide by its owner at first because it is the main provider. As it grows older it becomes a close companion. The reason I feel a dog cannot "love" like we do is because "love" is complex. A dog cannot give "love" because it has its limitations, namely size and brainpower. It also cannot be there for you always. A dog will not stand beside you during the worst of times simply because it cannot fathom the situation.