Phoenix Network Forums

We could turn this into a "discussion" very easily, couldn't we? :D

Samppa wrote:Fine, someone tell me how to call the spirits by using household accessories (I'm not buying anything), on my own since I couldn't trust anyone else with me, and I will believe my ass off while trying.

Looking at the vastly different experiences of people who claim this works, it's highly individual. Try something that's "comfortable and simple" I guess, maybe balancing some light object over a table and "willing" the spirits to move it, or "willing" them to change the height of a candle flame .... hopefully someone else has a better suggestion.

Samppa wrote:I do wonder though, it seems as if you've never tried to prove this, even though if it is so simple?

As for my opinion, I don't find it any more amusing than the local priest's opinion.

I was being purposely ambiguous. How much will it matter to you if I've tried this and failed if your test works; if my test works and yours fails? I'm just being cautious to not include any opinion I might (or might not) have concerning these "spirits."

The amusement I get from your opinion was that you're just blindly accepting that spirits don't exist, which is exactly like religion, only backwards; the existence of "God" cannot be "proven" or "disproven" yet, and I have a feeling that it never will be possible to run a test and be able to determine that some superior godlike being either does or doesn't exist conclusively, yet they still cling to "God" even though they can't point to evidence that he exists. You have the ability to "test" whether something exists, but you just blindly accept that it doesn't because "modern science" hasn't identified it yet.

Samppa wrote:But I will still refer to my other post I made in the ghost thread, if I were a spirit, I would go around scaring the chit out of everyone. AFAIK, it would be relatively easy to break out of some separate spirit world, through unassuming kids fooling around.

But you're not a ghost. And for the AFAIK, since you don't really know jack about "ghosts" (even whether they're real or not), the conclusion you draw about being "relatively easy to leave the spirit world" is erroneous (not only that, but how 'sure' are you that there is, ro would be, a 'spirit realm'? Perhaps ghosts live on the earth and people usually can't see them because of reason X). You're making a LOT of assumptions about this sort of thing that aren't necessary or useful.

Samppa wrote:And as for believing in spirits, the human mind is wonderful thing, that can make you think according to your beliefs. If you believe there's a poltergeist in your house and you think the remote is not where you left it (even though it is), you might think "Ooh, it's true.".

That's why I phrased it "you might actually be able to prove the existence of something by using one of these boards." You might be able to prove "something," but it doesn't necessarily have to be "spirits." You could atrribute this to: telekinesis, pyrokinesis, psychosis, angels, demons, aliens, big foot, ice cream men, monsters under your bed, or any one of a number of other foolish things if it works out (and then try additional experiments later to narrow down what the "unknown" really is).

If not, then at least you did try :D

I've numbered your quotes from top to bottom.

1. -

2. I do have the right not to believe in anything that I find to be balderdash.


3. Looking at all the ghost appearances that people have seen, it does seem simple. I added the spirit world as I thought some smartass would come along and say "maybe they live in a different place". Then you came along and said they live here. Damn

4. I don't have the time or patience to start experimenting with something I strongly don't believe in. The world as I see it around me is a completely biological and physiological one. It doesn't have room for a spiritual side. My body doesn't have room for a spirit. I don't want one. I don't feel like spending eternity with every single living organism that ever lived - as why would only humans have a spirit. And yes, I know I know nothing about it, it's an example that makes me feel better.

These things are simply something you believe in or you don't, and the odd few don't have an opinion for the lack of proof. All I know is, I feel the whole idea is another scheme to make you feel better about death, believing you will live on. It makes you feel better, so why not believe.



The gist of it all is I don't believe for no good reason, other people believe for no good reason and you don't believe in anything because you have no good reason.