Phoenix Network Forums

While the original poster is banned, the topic still remains. Do private organizations have the right to restrict access or content on the internet, and do people have the right to remain anonymous on the internet. - Edit by nighthawk

What defense do those have who risk themselves in the pursuit of helping others? How do those who have supreme power deal with an entity they fear? Simple - They demolish it, and all involved.
About two years ago, I, along with a few friends, formed a webpage intended for use by the other students at my small New England private preparatory high school. In two days, when I return from vacation, I will face expulsion. Why? Because a few immature kids posted defamatory messages against other students and the administration visited the site before I could censor the messages.

A little background about myself:
I’m hardly an intimidating figure. I stand an impressive 5’10”, weighing in at 145lbs, or as I like to say, just under 200. I do not violate school policy – at least in the ways most of my fellow students do, i.e., drugs, alcohol, or girls. Apparently, this time I did. I maintain(ed) a website containing weekend activities, pictures from school events, recordings of performances that I had done on my free time, recaps from sports games, and of course the occasional jest at a humorous situation. The only problem was, I wasn’t getting many hits. When I asked students what feature of a school based website would make them visit more frequently, the majority said a real-time, uncensored message board. So I figure, what the hell, and I threw one up.

Within two days I had triple digit hits every day, the number increasing steadily each day. The number of posts grew exponentially, and while many were thoughtless, the number of intelligent things being said started to become a substantial amount. I was filled with optimism and the hope that I could actually make a difference. Students would forever have a place to express their ideas and beliefs without feeling direct physical pressure from peers or adults. Well, that hope is no longer.

A day or two before holiday vacation, the administration, as one would imagine, found out about the site. While I thought they would be less than amused, I never envisioned that they would force me to shut it down. But they, along with a few larger students, did. They did so on the basis that it led to the discovering of indiscretions of a few pupils, and also that it led to the attempted self-infliction of pain by one of the kids discussed on the message board. While I feel badly about these happenings, in no way do I feel responsible for what happened. I wasn’t the one smoking. I wasn’t the one drinking. I didn’t unzip my pants that night. If you are of the mind to take things said on the internet too seriously, you obviously have deeper problems. There are going to be people that dislike you in the world, and if they don’t say it on the internet, it will be on the bathroom stall, on a napkin, or by some ladies in a hair parlor. Get over it.

Just today, I was speaking to a good friend of mine, whose parent happens to be a school administrator, and he alerted me of the school’s newest scheme. They invented a rule that states “no student can provide a platform for discussion which is derogatory of members of the community”. How immoral is that? Now, you’re probably thinking, ‘ex post facto’, they can’t do that. Well, it’s a private school, they can do anything.

I spoke to a lawyer friend, and he told me exactly what I feared. The school is actually classified as a ‘business’, so they can make, break, and otherwise bend rules as they please – they are their rules. He advised me however, that if I were to find court cases supporting my arguments, the administration might actually listen. I mean hey, if you aren’t going to listen to me, at least listen to the United States Supreme Court. This is what I found.

In my opinion, there are three issues with which to be dealt:
1) Is the provider of an Internet Posting Service liable for each and every word ever posted on the message board at all times.
2) Does/Do the poster(s) or the messages even have the right to do so.
3) Does/Do the poster(s) of the allegedly indecent message(s) deserve/have the right to stay anonymous.

oke i dont know laws, especialy in the USA.
But, cant you people start your own messeg board like free ipb or something like that and talk about everything they wont !
thay cant cancel your free ipb hosted somewere...
and then hang some layers in your school about new site and people come and talk abot whateva they wont.
anyways you gave me and idea, ill make that kinda site in my school and people cant talk freely about anything that is legal on the net ( read everything )
i dont know how to help you, but i do know that privat schools can do whateva they wont to you becouse they are privat !
go to public school

Heh, nice copy/paste ;] You ought to cite your sources and be a good boy.

and he has exactly 15 post/opened topics...and some are repeats..i wonder...

I request deletion of all of lapao's posts and the user being banned.

Ok. I find this story very akin to the censorship and rules we are facing in the US in large today. You can only say or display certain things, otherwise you are breaking the rules. To me it seems like a violation of the Freedom of Speech. Of course I am a conspiracy theorist. I would say if nothing else, just start the board on another computer outside the network, and administer it from there. That way they couldn't shut it down. Of course you have to ask yourself how far you are willing to go, to protect your rights.

The keyword in this posting is that it was a private high school. Private organizations can restrict freedom of speech. Especially schools. Considering you essentially leave your civil rights at the door when you enter school, there is no harm being done here. The only gray area is if the school has the right to force the owner to shut the site down. Now, the poster didn't specify, but they should only have this right if the material or site is hosted on their network. Other then that, too bad. They should have simply banned the website from school networks.

In my opinion, there are three issues with which to be dealt:
1) Is the provider of an Internet Posting Service liable for each and every word ever posted on the message board at all times.
2) Does/Do the poster(s) or the messages even have the right to do so.
3) Does/Do the poster(s) of the allegedly indecent message(s) deserve/have the right to stay anonymous.

1.) No. There is a supreme court case to back this up, but I don't remember it.
2.) Do they have the right to post? It's not a right. Right is a legal guarentee. You don't have a legal guarentee to post on a message board.
3.) Not if it is inflicting harm on another student.

EDIT: To facillitate discussion, I'm changing the thread name to "Privacy on the internet" and moving it to Serious Discussion.

So what? I'm a discussion whore

Intresting... One of thoses things that everyone has a differnet opinion about.

A long post but at the end of the day, if the site is hosted in school on a school server then school has every right to do what they want with the site. If a site is hosted and operated in USA, then the school must have to act according to the law of land & they cannot simply implement their own rules.

If site is hosted by a USA legal person (citizen) but is hosted on a server outside USA then the law of both USA & where the site is hosted comes in effect.

As far as privacy on internet is concerned, nothing is private on the internet. Internet is a public place.

nighthawk wrote:2.) Do they have the right to post? It's not a right. Right is a legal guarentee. You don't have a legal guarentee to post on a message board.

Some services even repeat this in their ToS, but they would not need that to restrict someone the access to the service without any notice and without any reason. This of course only applies again if its a private or commercial service. You have only rights to access public services and again you might have only the right to access that public content, if you are a citizen of that country (probably varies depending on local law). Restrcition to access such sites are probably bound to similar rules than real public locations. Meaning an officer (site operator/admin) can temporarily deny you the access and for longer periods it needs a judicial directive (word by word translation, might sound strange ). But I havent seen forums or guest books or simliar on public sites until today this might be just... irrelevant.

About the general topic... I dont hide my IP, so anyone who I am using a service of is free to sue me through either the abuse contact of my ISP or directly via a lawyer. However I am not posting details about my real self, so will not get my address until a court demands my ISP to reveal it .
I am confident this level of privacy is probably be the best balance in the common internet.

De Kus wrote:I am confident this level of privacy is probably be the best balance in the common internet.

I agree. Any more privacy then there currently is would be detrimental to the internet itself.

People already act more foolish online then they do in real life because they believe they have anonymity. We don't need to aggravate the situation by making people untraceable. People must be held accountable.

privacy on internet varies from case to case
i think private things like email and messenger things should have privacy but servers and shells should be open base for users like phoenix :P

you mean you want a user to be allowed to read the logs of others?

Privacy is something that should belong to everyone person, but now the internet is becoming a place where people must fight or take protective measures for their privacy. I personally believe everyone is entitled to their privacy, just like the freedom of speech.